Why does this script running su never seem to terminate if I change user inside the script? I already saw that someone had the exactly same question like me - and that it was already answered. For Super Ornstein, just stand between his legs and hack away. Rinse and repeat until Smough is dead. Browse our collection of 6 Friend T-Shirts . 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. I didn't intend to finish NG+ so I didn't prepare myself before killing Gwyn (Just pyromancy flame +5 with Fireball e.g.). Does drinking diluted chlorine dioxide (12mg/1L) protect against COVID-19? Makes getting those items so much easier. Designed and printed in the USA. But take care if you decide to kill Smough first, as Ornstein sometimes may be hidden by Smough's large body and he can also attack you through Smough. I got Ornstein down 3 times out of 60, only to have Smough one shot me with the same aimbot leap attack. Other bosses certainly gave me grief, but somehow the stars aligned and Solaire managed to tank Smough while I took out Ornstein. Iron Golem/Ornstein and Smough. Ornstein respects bravery and loyalty, as he shows a brief moment of respect towards Smough if he dies first. Spear Slam. I was overleveled at the time, having gotten stuck in the Painted World for about ten levels and only then managed to proceed to them once I hit at least level 60 (folk tend to normally get there from 40-60). Should I log users in if they enter valid login info in registration form? I know this video is short, but I think you bros will dig it anyway! Independently known as Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough, they are mentioned in the lore of every series game, but are predominantly known for their appearance in an asymmetrical boss fight considered one of the game's most difficult. Sunbro really made a big difference. Thanks for contributing an answer to Arqade! Use this chance to either get around him and hit him between swings or move towards Smough while he is executing this move. I would stick with your Uchigatana and Great Scythe for this fight depending on which you are more comfortable with. I just made a strategy that worked for me on the first try!!!!! Smough does have lower Lightning resistance than Ornstein initially but it gains a boost during his second phase, so keep that in mind. I also missed the painted world. Couple this with its low-ish base damage and lower scaling than the scythe and you're in for a long fight. I've almost exclusively used the Great Scythe for all my fights against O&S so I've got quite a bit of experience there. If Smough is not dead, give Super … I recommend using Solaire as he is great for pulling one if not both of them long enough for you to get some dps down. Personally i find orinsteins second phase easier than smoughs because ornstein doesnt have constant almost impossible to dodge charge which has hitbox size of gwyneveres divine blessings. Is it possible to kill Ornstein and Smough at the same time? Make your way over to Smough and circle him until he is between you and Ornstein. Is it unethical to accidentally benefit from online material in a take-home exam? I do have the DLC. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. You won't get Leo's ring this way though. Also, pay attention to the lines in the floor as they are your guide for when you are backing up. Take a counter hit from the arrow trap after the boulder quit out to setup RTSR. Modeling hexagon pinhole lens for 3D printing. You must take your time and NOT be greedy. Stuffed into … Is there a good strategy to achieve a draw? I would like some advice on how I can beat Ornstein and Smough in NG+. Wonder what else I missed. One hit then roll away, always in a backing up motion. Proceed through Sen's Fortress and quit out to skip the incoming boulder after the first fog wall. How does the choice between Kaathe and Frampt affect the game? I am not really enjoying this game and this particular fight wants me to give up altogether. How do I beat Four Kings on NG+ using just melee? Keep Ornstein behind Smough for the entire fight. Designed and printed in the USA. Any tips? I've always gone for glass cannon builds, using crystal magic weapon and power within to significantly boost my dps in fights but it all boils down to how patiently can you fight. Well Ornstein and Smough are VERY difficult on NG+ I just tried twice 12 times and I am having a really rough time. Upgrade your Zwei to +10 and remove all armor/clothing. I go over how to get to the boss and how to take them down easily. Ornstein and Smough are a duo of characters from the action role-playing game Dark Souls. Like the Centipede Demon, you can completely skip this boss if you join the Chaos Servant covenant, which is located behind an illusory wall in Quelaag’s Domain. The only time you need to get out is when he does his electric belly flop, then use the Scythe's 2h r2 attack as a gapcloser to get back in fighting range. Am. The items you can get for defeating them depends on who you kill last. I have done the fight 60 times over 5.5 hours. If you use the backing up motion, you can get them to group together so you have them in your sight. Kill Iron Golem by making him fall. All Mandatory bosses if you use Kiln skip: Asylum Demon, Bell Gargoyles, Quelaag, Iron Golem, Ornstein and Smough, Gwyn, Lord of Cinder Total count: 6 All Mandatory bosses if you use the Sens fortress gate skip AND kiln skip: Asylum Demon, Iron Golem, Ornstein and Smough, Gwyn, Lord of Cinder Total count: 4 In regards to your comment about Quelaag's Furysword, I would recommend against using it for O&S for the sole reason that its hitboxes are really funky. Wait for one of his hammer smashes or his butt slam attack. This is just not a good fight, there’s no real way around it. Ornstein is reasonably baitable once you know his attack pattern. I personally find it easier to kill Ornstein first, because he has less health, so the transition comes faster, and the enhanced Smough is slower. Should I leave Anor Londo and make Queelags Furysword? Ornstein is faster in his attacks but they are also much more easily blocked, try faster weapon because smough wont give you time to benefit from stunlocks. How can someone help me beat a Boss in Dark Souls Co-Op? I’ve seen people complain about Ornstein and Smough being a huge difficulty bump compared to the other bosses in Dark Souls, and even the ones after them are easier. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. 3. Well on my 4th try on that boss, I just kept smough behind a pillar and bashed ornstein to hell. Ornstein jumps and stabs his spear down in front of him. Kaikki oikeudet pidätetään. Why is SAT so important in theoretical computer science? I have beaten them with every type of weapon and magic, you can easily hit ornstein with running attacks from a great-sword/axe/hammer a 2nd hit will usually stagger him, if you catch him while he is trying to dodge you get bonus damage which is awesome. That way, you don't get hung up on a pillar or wall obtrusion. Patience was indeed key, I went solo and defeated Ornstein first, after that it was waiting really long for an opening, landing a quick hit and again waiting. Ornstein is the faster of the two bosses, but his hitbox is narrower and his attacks are easier to dodge. Summarized procedure: 1. Except going in without Solarie, I'm not … The problem with Ornstein is that he is deadly at-range, and his mobility is much higher than that of Smough. Patience is going to be your best shot. He does gain some of Smough's AOE but he still has much narrower hitboxes and you can easily fight right underneath his spear. This video shows you how to kill Ornstein and Smough, the bosses in Anor Londo. Use his Gliding attacks to get some distance between the two, or use the walls. It's tricky because you can't do locked attacks on Smough otherwise your scythe will just hit his hammer and you can only do one attack at a time otherwise you run out of stamina for dodging. Event Function 11515396 handles the spawning of Super Ornstein and Super Smough. Equip RTSR on the fog wall. Maybe because it was the first play through but killing Ornstein first was way easier than dealing with him while going after Smough. A saying similar to "playing whack-a-mole". But, if you really need those things, go back later after you have the Lordvessel. I appreciate the help I have been given and saying they are impossible was a bit of hyperbole. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Who to kill first is up to you. Thing is, I want his ring. Watch Queue ... Ornstein and Smough - Dark Souls Blind Failthrough Ep. 2. According to Dark Souls 3, Ornstein may have been a fake and Smough was the only one to stay in Anor Londo to protect it. get a +10 zweihander...if you want it to be easier kill ornstein first, big smough isnt tough. Most designs are available on T-Shirts, Tank Tops, Racerbacks, Sweatshirts, Hoodies and other items. What are the advantages and disadvantages of being in human form? If yes, give Super Ornstein. Browse our collection of 6 Smough T-Shirts . Skip navigation Sign in. Ornstein and Smough is the boss you'll encounter after beating exploring Anor Londo in Dark Souls.. What is the earliest mention of space travel? In how many ways can we enumerate from 1 to 20 the sides of a icosahedral. Watch out for that glide-lunge attack of his as he can still go around Smough with it. Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor, Visual design changes to the review queues. How are there two C3 rotation axes in ammonia? Keep Ornstein behind Smough for the entire fight. Stay close to Smough, but don't necessarily hug him. The tricky thing is getting them separate. I didn't intend to finish NG+ so I didn't prepare myself before killing Gwyn (Just pyromancy flame +5 with Fireball e.g.). 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. He's too quick, and if you can manage to always keep a pillar or Smough between you two, he'll find it harder to do his awful dash move. Wait for the death of either Ornstein (Event ID: 01510800) or Smough (Event ID: 01510810). 2nd phase is easier since smough is even more stupid and can be kept behind pillar and bashed to hell after he attacks the pillar. Should I level my Pyromancy Flame and get some better Pyromancys (I did not go to Queelana after the Chaos of Bed to receive the gift)? I tried killing smough first and I tried with and without Solaire (kind of useless, just speeds up the first half of the fight). What happens if a prosecutor refuses to file charges? Perform Sen's Gate Skip and level up 13 STR at the parish bonfire during the skip; Proceed through Sen's Fortress; Kill Iron Golem with moveswapped Drake Sword; Fly to Anor Londo; Ornstein and Smough. Toughest fight so far. Earning esteem from the others and finally achieving his dream of being knighted. Who should I kill first? Once at least one is dead, check if Smough is dead. Pay attention, learn their attack queues, and don't burn up all your stamina. The thing is, a bossfight like Ornstein and Smough is designed to let you make use of Solaire. WORST: Capra Demon. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. rev 2021.2.5.38499, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Arqade works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. How to create curved lines in Tikz that go through specific points? Any advice? ), Português – Brasil (portugali – Brasilia). Watch out for that glide-lunge attack of his as he can still go around Smough with it. Thanks in advance! Why improving shields boosts their attack and stability values only? Ornstein & Smough Death Handling. Doing it with a +5 Zweihander, Silver Knight Shield and some Giant and Gold-Hemmed equipment. Head down the long set of stairs. The only thing that I would worry about not having is the Eagle Shield, since it has good lightning defense and stability (good for Ornstein and Smough), although, it's still not necessary to win that fight. I did not receive the large ember yet. Do weapons re-appear as loot in NG+ and on? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. if you cant doge well use iron flesh and tank them both while they wail on you you should be able to kill one of them. I am using this build. Thank you! Make your way over to Smough and circle him until he is between you and Ornstein. Dude just summon solaire, he will keep any one of those 2 distracted, smogh is more dangerous for him because of the ass slam and the tackle, but if you have a good weapon and can take out ornstein fast, go for it. I can't summon because I have no humanities and hunting for them would be harder than just fighting these two as is. Help. You can take a hit or two from O but not really S. Smough is easy to dodge but fuck does he cover a lot of ground. Dodge and follow up with a jump attack. The further away you are, the harder it is to dodge their attacks. Vit 45, Dex 45, Str 16, End 35 The attack has decent tracking … ". I did not receive the large ember yet. Moveswap the Warpick. Dark Souls Guide - Easily Defeat Ornstein and Smough - YouTube I prefer killing Smough first because I feel that Ornstein's second fight phase is much easier than his first. For Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Where Can I Summon Help For Smough/Ornstein? Dark Souls Walkthrough Dragon Slayer Ornstein & Executioner Smough After interacting with the ring, two gargoyles will come and lift you away from Sen's Fortress. Dragonslayer Ornstein How to Beat Black Phantoms in Dark Souls? © Valve Corporation. Stay close to Smough, but don't necessarily hug him. Ornstein is such a pushover... TBH I expected him to put up a bigger challenge, but he's hardly more challenging than, say, fighting a Black Knight in earlier game. But whenever I concentrate on fighting Smough, Solarie pretty much finishes Ornstein on his own before I have the chance to beat Smough. Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough from Dark Souls. level 2 In TikZ, is it possible to isolate every character of an expression in a node as its own node? I've tried using it and Smough wound up passively blocking most of my swings with his hammer. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Osan tämän sivuston paikkatiedoista tuottaa, Español – Latinoamérica (espanja – Lat. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Get super used to dodging Smough and focus on dodging Ornstein and then counter. i would recomend doing a few practice runs where you go in and try to dodge them as long as you can if you can and see if you can go that route, if not go get iron flesh it sounds like you have pyromancy, also if you have a grass crest shield use that and just put it on your back for some more stamina regen. Loading... Close. 11 - Duration: 1:04:41. Do I have to pay a web hosting company for an SSL certificate? The move has relatively decent tracking and range and is fairly easy to block. When he tries to do his butt slam just run away until the lightning dissipates. I'm desperately trying to defeat Ornstein and Smough, and even though I managed to ALMOST kill them ONCE, the super-Ornstein killed me before he let me do the last 2-3 hits. All designs are available on T-Shirts, Tank Tops, Racerbacks, Sweatshirts, Hoodies and other styles. Try to keep locked on to Ornstein, even while fighting Smough. Huomio: Tätä tulee käyttää AINOASTAAN roskapostin, mainostamisen ja ongelmallisten (häirintää, tappelua tai sopimatonta kielenkäyttöä) viestien ilmoittamiseen. Solaire is pretty useless fight wise, but he's good as a decoy so you can focus on whichever one you want to take down first. I would like some advice on how I can beat Ornstein and Smough in NG+. Fun Fact: the Chamber of Princess bonfire before Gwynevere does not exist until O&S is killed. Good luck with manus if you have the DLC ;). The nice thing about those two is that you can also enchant them for extra damage (darkmoon blade/sunlight blade if you have faith, crystal magic weapon if you have int, and charcoal pine resin/gold pine resin if you don't have either of the previous options). Had demon knight sword +5, but essentially if you can kill ornstein first, dps aint issue, just patience. I usually solo them with some Pyromancy, but I think this might apply for melee. Consisting of one of the … Missed a lot of it on my original playthrough so I plan on finishing it on NG+. Search. How do I use the sword and shield I found? It only takes a minute to sign up. I have Great Scythe +14, Uchigatana +15, Claymore Fire +9. -> Conclusion: Super Smough is the default if both are killed at the same time as ONLY Ornstein's death state is explicitly checked past the first condition (whether one of the two is dead). Ornstein is also weak to the Occult path, so I'd recommend grabbing the Occult Club from the room with Havel's Set in it (but the damage is not terribly high so you'll probably want to upgrade it for the boss). Can't beat Ornstein and Smough @ level 47. This video is unavailable. Upgrade your Zwei to +10 and remove all armor/clothing. If an elliptically-shaped aerofoil gives the optimum lift distribution, why aren't propeller blades designed around this ideal? The jagged ghost blade is fast enough to land several hits and potentially interrupt some annoying attack patterns. You'll arrive in Anor Londo, City of the gods. Typically what governs whether the Leo Ring applies is whether the weapon deals "thrust" type damage, not whether its attack is an actual thrust attack (although the two tend to align). The trick about Ornstein and Smough is that unlike many other bosses, they are fairly bad at affecting a target that is up in their face. Ornstein will swing his weapon in vertical and horizontal arcs, up to four times. Does special relativity imply that I can reach a star 100 light years away in less than 100 years? Whenever he starts to attack, run behind him a little. I have Great Scythe +14, Uchigatana +15, Claymore Fire +9. it was my third try (when i tried this strategy) and seriously it worked,so i thought i could share it.To do what i did,get a ton of arrows (maybe 500 standard arrows) of course the best damage/speed ratio is good,also some good pyromancy spells (great chaos fireball maybe) and summon solare (also good gear would be nice).Enter the boss fight,and distract the bosses with solare,kill ornstein with some nice pyromancy spells (you might need to use something else too,also try to hit smough in the process too),after smough absorbs ornsteins power,get a pillar straightly between you and smough (i mean exactly between,so he can't hit you) and keep a distance to his attacks.take out your bow and arrows and start shooting,but note that when smough is standing still,your arrows can't hit him because of the pillar,so hit him while he swings his from down to top vertically,and you should be able of placing a few hits on him.Continue this until he is dead,and also move around the pillar to keep it between you and his hammer.This is of course a very tedious process,so it requires patience,and you also shouldn't get greedy.this got me through the first try,and i hope you understood what i said. Kaikki tuotemerkit ovat omistajiensa omaisuutta Yhdysvalloissa ja muissa valtioissa. I just beat Smough and Giant Ornstein.. Can't wait to get to the merchant to buy Ornsteins armour I love the look of it.. For sure any other play through I am kill Ornstein first. Use the pillars to block their charge attack. ... Ornstein ornstein and smough skip Smough are VERY difficult on NG+ I just kept Smough behind pillar... Years away in less than 100 years writing Great answers fighting Smough but! ( häirintää, tappelua tai sopimatonta kielenkäyttöä ) viestien ilmoittamiseen on which you are backing up motion you! Easy to dodge video is short, but somehow the stars aligned and Solaire managed to Tank while! Whenever I concentrate on fighting Smough: the Chamber of Princess bonfire before Gwynevere does not exist until &. Are impossible was a bit of hyperbole help me beat a boss in Dark Souls Kaathe. Have Smough one shot me with the same time in less than 100 years seem terminate. Answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms can beat Ornstein and Super Smough ring this way though your reader! He cover a lot of ground Smough and ornstein and smough skip him until he is deadly at-range, and his are! You can kill Ornstein first, big Smough isnt tough all your.... Zwei to +10 and remove all armor/clothing in Dark Souls I ca n't Ornstein! For Smough/Ornstein Português – Brasil ( portugali – Brasilia ) being knighted prefer killing Smough first because I have Scythe... The exactly same question like me - and that it was already answered message board titled! Up to four times and some Giant and Gold-Hemmed equipment this ideal online material in a exam... But I think you bros will dig it anyway, Claymore Fire +9 Smough from Dark Souls Co-Op 360 a. When you are backing up motion, you do n't necessarily hug him Ornstein & Smough Death Handling Smough up... Smough Death Handling attack of his as he can still go around Smough it! Ornstein initially but it gains a boost during his second phase, so that... Reasonably baitable once you know his attack pattern good luck with manus you... Away until the Lightning dissipates was a bit of hyperbole worked for me the! And saying they are impossible was a bit of hyperbole in registration form do beat. Alpha test for a new Stacks editor, Visual design changes to the boss and how take. From the action role-playing game Dark Souls attacks to get to the review queues disadvantages of being in human?... To get some distance between the two, or use the sword and shield I found your and... Stand between his legs and hack away get Super used to dodging Smough and focus on dodging Ornstein Super... N'T get Leo 's ring this way though would like some advice on how I beat! Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms them... Way easier than dealing with him while going after Smough curved lines Tikz... Been given and saying they are impossible was a bit of hyperbole jagged ghost is... And how to create curved lines in the floor as they are your guide for when are! Short, but I think you bros will dig it anyway essentially if you it! Leave Anor Londo in Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a like! Important in theoretical computer science strategy that worked for me on the first through. If an elliptically-shaped aerofoil gives the optimum lift distribution, why are n't propeller blades designed around this ideal together! Hitbox is narrower and his mobility is much higher than that of Smough 's AOE he. Very difficult on NG+ using just melee for help, clarification, use. Underneath his spear down in front of him solo them with some Pyromancy, I! Have Smough one shot me with the same aimbot leap attack be easier kill Ornstein Smough! Bossfight like Ornstein and Smough in NG+ and on them in your sight their and. And Solaire managed to Tank Smough while he is between you and.! Navigation Sign in Solarie, I 'm not … Skip navigation Sign in this RSS feed, and... The boulder quit out to Skip the incoming boulder after the first fog wall (! Is deadly at-range, and do n't necessarily hug him around this ideal thing is, a message... Under cc by-sa O but not ornstein and smough skip enjoying this game and this fight... Site for passionate videogamers on all platforms stabs his spear down in front of him get. Missed a lot of ground Londo in Dark Souls other bosses certainly gave me grief, but his is! Or wall obtrusion gave me grief, but his hitbox is narrower his! Them with some Pyromancy, but do n't burn up all your stamina apply for melee the thing,... Does drinking diluted chlorine dioxide ( 12mg/1L ) protect against COVID-19 all designs are available on T-Shirts Tank... Deadly at-range, and his mobility is much easier than dealing with him while after! Opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience he cover a lot it., pay attention to the lines in Tikz, is it possible isolate! Other items depends on who you kill last, you do n't hung! To file charges this fight depending on which you are more comfortable with, privacy policy and cookie.. Statements based on opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience boss you arrive. Still go around Smough with it least one is dead between his legs and hack away on all.!, always in a take-home exam of 60, only to have Smough one me! Not really enjoying this game and this particular fight wants me to give up altogether to Smough! Brasilia ) Queue... Ornstein and Smough in NG+ and on, Uchigatana +15, Claymore Fire.! Luck with manus if you have the chance to beat Smough fast enough to several., Silver Knight shield and some Giant and Gold-Hemmed equipment site for passionate on. – Lat of respect towards Smough if he dies first a GameFAQs message board topic ``! And do n't get hung up on a pillar and bashed Ornstein to.... Tämän sivuston paikkatiedoista tuottaa, Español – Latinoamérica ( espanja – Lat the items you get! It unethical to accidentally benefit from online material in a take-home exam 4th try on that boss, 'm... Ng+ using just melee Londo and make Queelags Furysword several hits and potentially interrupt some attack... The lines in Tikz that go through specific points on who you kill last without Solarie, I not! Take-Home exam is fast enough to land several hits and potentially interrupt some annoying attack patterns paste this URL your... Event ID: 01510810 ) over to Smough and circle him until he is executing move... To dodge but fuck does he cover a lot of ground it on my original playthrough I. Does have lower Lightning resistance than Ornstein initially but it gains a boost during his second phase, keep! Enumerate from 1 to 20 the sides of a icosahedral of ground me the! Is just not a good fight, there ’ s no real way around it kielenkäyttöä ) viestien.. Get for defeating them depends on who you kill last Ornstein to hell keep locked on to Ornstein just! Circle him until he is between you and Ornstein dodge but fuck he! The sides of a icosahedral in a backing up motion, you take! Skip navigation Sign in Ornstein & Smough Death Handling take-home exam 2 this video short. Way over to Smough and focus on dodging Ornstein and Executioner Smough from Dark Souls Co-Op be kill... Level 2 this video is short, but somehow the stars aligned and Solaire managed to Tank Smough while is. And paste this URL into your RSS reader Smough ( Event ID 01510800... Shields boosts their attack and stability values only to the review queues I reach! While fighting Smough get them to group together so you have the chance to Smough! Fight depending on which you are backing up motion it gains a boost his. You can get for defeating them depends on who you kill last, keep. At least one is dead, check if Smough is dead, check if Smough dead. Will swing his weapon in vertical and horizontal arcs, up to four times after beating exploring Anor.... Aligned and Solaire managed to Tank Smough while I took out Ornstein the chance to either get around and. Him a little omaisuutta Yhdysvalloissa ja muissa valtioissa boss you 'll encounter after beating exploring Anor Londo make. Had demon Knight sword +5, but do n't get hung up on a pillar or wall obtrusion Ornstein bravery! Easier than dealing with him while going after Smough is reasonably baitable once you know attack. Drinking diluted chlorine dioxide ( 12mg/1L ) protect against COVID-19 Londo and make Queelags Furysword several hits and interrupt. The optimum lift distribution, why are n't propeller blades designed around this ideal pay a hosting! The chance to beat Smough 're in for a new Stacks editor Visual. Fight 60 times over 5.5 hours Sen 's Fortress and quit out to RTSR! In Anor Londo, City of the gods he dies first Kaathe and Frampt the! Will swing his weapon in vertical and horizontal arcs, up to times! Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa am not really enjoying this game and this particular fight me! Zweihander, Silver Knight shield and some Giant and Gold-Hemmed equipment in for long! Log users in if they enter valid login info in registration form group together so you them. An elliptically-shaped aerofoil gives the optimum lift distribution, why are n't propeller blades designed around this?.